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Please Copy This Film Bonus Interview: Nicole Betancourt Chats with "Enrique" of Maldeojo TV

Published on March 14, 2007

This bonus interview is offered as a supplement to the article "Please Copy This Film: Video and the People's Movement in Oaxaca, Mexico."

The name "Enrique" is being used to protect the identity of the interviewee.

Nicole: What is Maldeojo? What do you do?

Enrique: Maldeojo TV is a collective of individuals and organizations dedicated to providing information in support of the social movement in Oaxaca.

Nicole: What is the relationship between Maldeojo and Ojo de Agua?

Enrique: Ojo de Agua is one of the members of Maldeojo.

Nicole: Who are the other organizations that are members?

Bootleg DVDs for sale on the streets of Oaxaca. Photo by Nicole Betancourt

Enrique: Maybe it's easier to understand Maldeojo if you know how it started. Do you know the story?

Nicole: No, please tell me.

Enrique: There are 15 individual members. The two main organizations involved are Ojo de Agua and Indymedia Oaxaca. Shortly after the Image Roots Festival, as you know, the State Police attacked the teacher's sit-in in downtown Oaxaca. That same day, a lot of us went out to shoot and, because of the festival, everyone, from different organizations, gravitated toward Ojo de Agua to seek coordination, link to the internet, find spaces for airing their material, and to plan in a collective way what we should do. This is how we got the first DVD out, Ya Cay�. At the same time, photographs and radio reports were put on the web.

We thought of Maldeojo for two basic reasons: First, because we wanted to give it some sort of identification, "branding" you would say. Second, because none of us (people and organizations) wanted to become exposed. It was very, very late one night, we were all tired (about five of us) and realized we had to think of a name to put on the material that was being put out at that very moment. Maldeojo came up, as a joke, but we said "OK, that's the name." Not everyone likes it, it is a bit aggressive. Others like it a lot. Maldeojo is an improvised name for a spontaneous grouping of independent communicators who saw an immediate need to get organized, even if only for a short while.

Nicole: What would you say are the most important accomplishments of Maldeojo?

Enrique: We managed to get a lot of material out there, mainly through the internet, but also in DVDs all over Oaxaca. A lot of people have seen our work, and even though we will never be able to prove it, we know that there are groups and communities who were able to see through Ulises' lies in on the mainstream media, thanks to our work. We know that we are generating much impact, because our videos are being sold by pirate vendors in the city (they are making a fair amount of money from it), and that our material is being seen and downloaded through the web. Maldeojo productions have been translated into several languages now.

Nicole: It seems like you are not upset that people are copying your work and making money from it. Was this bootlegging part of your distribution strategy or did it just evolve? How did you feed into this grassroots distribution?

Enrique: At first, we were more surprised and flattered than upset. We still are. We are not concerned with bootleggers as much as with the people who take copies of our work (bootlegged and otherwise) and make their own videos with them, or put them in the news out of context from what we intend to show.

It was not part of any strategy. The bootleggers have a much better ability to copy and sell. We know that the pirates are also selling our stuff in Mexico City. This is a good strategic complement to our poor distribution skills and abilities.

Nicole: What difference has video made in the movement in Oaxaca? Do you have any specific stories?

Enrique: We know that in one specific town an indigenous community was getting convinced by state government people to come to Oaxaca to participate in a march to support Ulises. They were all set to go. Then they saw our videos, understood what was happening, and instead of participating in the march, they decided to send food to the people in the resistance. Later, the community became involved in the sit-ins, the marches and the takeovers of certain government offices. This is one concrete story. There are others we have been told, along similar lines, but we haven't confirmed them.

Nicole: You mentioned that Maldeojo was temporary. What do you see as the future of Maldeojo?

Enrique: We had a meeting about Maldeojo's future. There are some members who want to extend this beyond the movement, planning alternative communication strategies, building networks in Oaxaca, training, etc. In Ojo de Agua we feel that this is the work we are doing anyway. We like the work Maldeojo is doing now, and are open to keeping it going, but only if we find something that fills in empty spaces Ojo de Agua leaves behind, without simply duplicating our work, or making fuzzy (potentially conflicting) boundaries between Maldeojo and Ojo de Agua.

Nicole: That makes sense.

Enrique: See? Your strategic planning sessions have been very helpful.

Nicole: Glad to hear it! Tell me the story of what happened when the women's march took over the television station?

Enrique: COMO, Coalicion de Mujeres Oaxaquenas, had organized a march. Women clanging pots and pans marched toward the Zocalo (the main square) with a lot of good energy. When they arrived at the Zocalo, they decided to go to the state-run radio and TV station, COR-TV (Corporacion Oaxaquena de Radio y Television), to ask for a space to communicate the philosophies and objectives of COMO.

Police barricades block off the street. Photo by Nicole Betancourt

It was no surprise that the people at COR-TV did not allow them the space. And so, the women decided, rather spontaneously, to take over the stations. They went in, held the employees captive and forced (by no means violently) the technicians to put them on the air. They agreed. The women said what they wanted to say, and then decided to keep the radio and television studios. It was an all-women operation, with no violence but decisive and unbendable firmness.

They called Maldeojo urgently, one or two days later. We met the people that had been assigned to programming. They had hardly slept, the tension was unbearable. Any strong sound would make everyone jump. There was a fiesta in the barrio, and the fireworks for the fiesta made everyone especially jumpy. They needed programming. In the end, they used videos that were in our library, including from the recent indigenous festival.

The struggle, from the very first, has been greatly influenced by media. One important level of the conflict is "official" information and "alternative" pieces that were (and are) circulating. The APPO movement managed to get a lot of people mobilized thanks to the radio stations (and the state-run TV station) they took over. There was also a symbolic triumph in taking the TV station that belonged to the government. Now it belonged to the Oaxacan people. They changed the slogan to say (Television para el Pueblo Oaxaqueno). And the fact that it was run by women made the victory even stronger.

The media struggle was so important, that the government decided to set up its own "illegal" radio station, using the same techniques as the APPO stations, to try to counteract the movement.

Nicole: Were the government efforts as successful as APPO's media tactics?

Enrique: "Radio Ciudadana" was a reactionary radio station, broadcasting from unknown places, firing hatred and xenophobia at the people of Oaxaca. They used the same technique of on-air phone calls, but instead of people calling in to denounce, complain or expose the government, they would do it very harshly against APPO and the whole movement.

The government was only successful with media when they interfered with APPO-controlled media infrastructure, riddling transmitters with bullets, pouring acid over equipment or otherwise forcing APPO off the air. "Radio Ciudadana" was scary, fascist in its hate-mongering style, and it did create an impact, especially when it was the only audible radio station on the air, during the Federal Police incursion.

Nicole: I remember hearing stories of people being accused on-air and online of supporting APPO. They publicized their addresses, places of work, even their license plate numbers and information about where their kids went to school. They were inviting the public to attack these people.

Enrique: That's right. The name of at least one Maldeojo member was mentioned. And they also would say that all independent media people should be lynched.

Nicole: That is terrifying! How can people listen to APPO media/radio now?

Enrique: I understand that Radio Planton is on internet right now.

Nicole: How did Maldeojo protect itself? Were you ever scared?

Enrique: November 25 was a horrible day. There was a lot of indiscriminate violence on the streets. Police were beating up and taking away anybody they could grab. The next few days, they would travel down the streets looking for people. They said they had lists of people with photos. All the buses leaving Oaxaca were searched, teachers were picked up in the middle of their classes, beat up in front of their pupils, and taken away. Information came to us through a very reliable source that Ojo de Agua and Indymedia were on their hit list. We decided to leave the office, and everyone lay low for a couple of weeks.

Nicole: Do you feel safe now? What has changed?

Enrique: We are not really safe. Nothing can really guarantee anyone's safety. The federal and state governments are trying to stamp out the movement, and they will not be able to do it. There is no real solution to the problem, nor anything that will guarantee that the repression (now quieter and more directed) will stop any time soon. Meantime, people are even more pissed off. The movement is getting back on its feet after a bad beating, and it's getting ready to keep on with the struggle.

International exposure, I think, is an important weapon at this moment. If you read yesterday's Jornada, there is a description of the declaration of an International Commission that came and interviewed hundreds of people. It makes the government look very bad.

Nicole: Glad to hear it. Brad Will's murder brought a lot of international attention to Oaxaca and made the government look bad. Was he a member of Maldeojo? What was your relationship with him?

Enrique: There was no direct relation with Brad. We had seen him shooting video. He was everywhere. One of our members met him at a screening some days before he was killed. Brad brought a video on Lebanon to Oaxaca. He was supposed to come and see us a couple of days later to talk about exchanging footage. The meeting was stopped by a bullet.

Nicole: How has his death affected the media activist community in Oaxaca?

Enrique: Very few people know that the same afternoon Brad was shot, in Santa Maria Coyotepec there was a massive attack against APPO people. There was a meeting on the street, and the pristas (the ruling PRI party in Oaxaca) surrounded them and started shooting. There were several dead and many wounded. A video on this will soon come out. The video on Santa Maria Coyotecpec is a Maldeojo production, in collaboration with canal 6 de julio.

Artwork made in response to the conflict. Photo by Nicole Betancourt

Brad's death is a tragedy, more so because the killers (photographed by press) are free. There have been other communicators that have been beat up, and even jailed.

Nicole: It seems like a huge part of this struggle is about media, which makes you at risk. How do you protect yourself?

Enrique: We try to be careful, keep our antennas up to see when we should step back from the action. There are a lot of people who know us, including federal representatives, activists in other countries, etc. We know we are at risk.

Nicole: Please be careful!

Enrique: We always are. You be careful too.

Nicole: Will do! Thank you so much for the interview. Can people donate funds to your work?

Enrique: There have been a few donations. Yes, we need money, because these activities are costly, and they have veered us away from our regular activities. As you know, promoting ourselves is not our strongest virtue. I feel an, illogical I know, contradiction between doing things we believe in and marketing them to get money, as if it was for sale.

Nicole: We definitely have to talk about that one!!!

Enrique: Thank you, Nicole!